Home Page
Home Page
Search | Statistics | User Listing Forums | Calendars | Albums | Quotes | Skins | Language
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

Random quote: "When you make the two one, and when you make the inner as the outer and the outer as the inner and the above as the below, and when you make the male and the female into a single one, so that the male will not be male and the female not be female, when you make eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in the place of a hand, and a foot in the place of a foot, and an image in the place of an image, then shall you enter the Kingdom." (Jesus, Gospel of Thomas)
- (Added by: Vector8)


Transcript 20 feb
View previous thread :: View next thread
   General Discussion -> The Gathering Place (TGP)Message format
 

Posted 2003-02-26 9:20 PM (#3509 - in reply to #3505)
Subject: RE: Transcript 20 feb... Part 2


2nd speaker, Michael. I am going to bring this to a personal level, I am having fun, does that mean that I am in a doldrum of stupid rest, or have I reached … ah…some sense of what the happy dream is?fficeffice" />>>

 >>

Raj:- let me ask this, is the happy dream a private dream?>>

 >>

Michael:- No I don’t think so, I don’t think it’s a private dream, I think it’s the way you see the world, and so what your doing is seeing everything in the world being in perfect accord with Gods plan.>>

 >>

Raj:- And are you seeing a suffering world?>>

 >>

Michael:- umm, I’m seeing …….confusion, but I’m seeing …….progress, ……and I don’t see suffering in my world, what I’m seeing…I mean … I see it, I read about it in the newspapers, but in my experience, I’m not experiencing, I’m not experie…..seeing suffering. I’m seeing people doing the best they can….and…. moving forward…in Gods plan. ……………….I lose it, once in a while.>>

 >>

Raj:- is…are are, either, either you are creating a cocoon for yourself, that your unwilling to look outside of…or you are giving definitions…benign definitions to suffering that calls for correction…….you read about it in the newspaper or in the news…..is that not going on in your world?>>

 >>

Michael:- well……to be perfectly honest I think there is great exaggeration, and I think in the press there’s…. That’s the way they sell newspapers. So…..>>

 >>

Raj:- you think there are no peoples starving…. Is that>>

 >>

Michael:- Oh absolutely >>

 >>

Raj :- not suffering?>>

 >>

Michael:- That is yes.>>

 >>

Raj:- Does that not call for correction?>>

 >>

Michael:- yes it does.>>

 >>

Raj:- does that not call for involvement? >>

 >>

Michael:- In…….yes it does………. So so…this happy dream the course talks about, can never be achieved until everyone is in the happy dream……..is that correct?>>

 >>

Raj:- The happy dream is children not starving, the happy dream, is….. harmony…….. between countries, between governments, between people….the happy dream is a world that someone from another planet,. Could discover and recognise that there is intelligence..governing…that the meaning of love had been discovered and embodied……. It will not look like a world where injury and hurt and starvation and suffering of all kinds is going on,……. But everyone is walking around with a smile on their face experiencing ..this …….intangible something that they are calling ……. The happy dream (sarcastly) The happy dream is going to look like a world in harmony…….. where no form of suffering is even seeming to occur.>>

 >>

Michael:- Hoe did you wake up…….did YOU see the happy dream? ……….. you see what I am getting at here….I understood…… that that what happens s that you enter the happy dream, and then you exist in the happy dream, until……… until…. Gods…..plan….OK….. causes you to…..to wake up…to become enlightened, so as long as there is any suffering in the world, you cant be in the happy dream….therefore no one can wake up……. You see the conundrum, I am getting here?>>

So therefore no one has ever awakened……. Whose….. because as long as one of the brotherhood is suffering then no one can awaken….that’s….that’s what I am hearing….that’s my problem. >>

 >>

Raj:- Until everyone is awake, the brotherhood…..as a whole….is …. Not totally awake….and in that sense I am not totally awake…because there are those of my brothers and sisters that are insisting in their dreams.>>

 >>

Michael:- so your not having any fun either?>>

 >>

Raj:- I will tell you that…… once…….. once you begin ….. to recognise the ……. Divine character and nature of…… embodying God…in acts…… in your world…… whether such intent and action is easy for you or not, because of your …. Uhh… prior state of mind, your separated state of mind…..you begin to enjoy casting your vote….and you begin to feel the joy of the brotherhood that is awake, as they rejoice in every act of embodying the fathers will. Which every one of you engages in no matter how tiny it is….. When I say its not fun, I am saying it …… so that you will understand that the fear you feel when you dare to cast your vote…… is an integral part of shifting out of the mutually agreed upon definitions of the group consensus…….. and that is NOT justification for not casting your vote.>>

 >>

Michael:- but, but don’t you somewhere along the line, reach a point where you don’t care? You don’t care if it rocks the boat, you just want to do the right thing …so to speak..and cast the vote and say this is what I stand for…. And the chips fall where they may…… and it becomes less of a fearful thing through the practise?>>

 >>

Raj:- That is correct, but mind you, the happy dream is not going to be an inner bliss, that you  experience through giving some ethereal definition to the suffering that is going on, so that you somehow arrive at …….. the insane…… idea……. That the suffering that is going on isn’t really suffering, but some part of the development and refinement of the souls, …who appear to be suffering, that is absolutely essential to their ….to their waking up. And therefore is fulfilling Gods purpose and therefore doesn’t need to be addressed. It doesn’t call for correction, it doesn’t call you or you  or anyone else to somehow get food into their mouth, or somehow hug that little girl or that little boy, dirty little girl and dirty little boy living in a hovel, who has tears streaming down his or her face, and comforting him, or comforting her… and embodying  love, and embodying the elements of the happy dream so that the situation can be transformed… because truth and love has been illuminated to them by your actions….and as their tears are wiped away, and as there are fewer and fewer occasions for them to have tears…the happy dream….is happy dream is coming into view, but the happy dream is not something that you can engage in by yourself. ……….. does that answer your question?>>

 >>

Michael:- well I was having a lot more fun, before you answered my question……I will tell you that. (general laughter) see there’s a thing about, about…. That that I am feeling, I am feeling like I’m, I’m right where I am supposed to be, doing what I am supposed to be doing, and I feel guided to do that.>>

 >>

Raj:- You are, and you’re here, and your hearing me say what I am saying. >>

 >>

Michael:- Right,….. but but there’s another thing for instance where I think what you focus on expands….. so if I am spending my time … thinking about all the people that are starving and suffering in the world and how I should be out helping them, ……..>>

 >>

Raj:- Ok, but remember we are not talking about generic suffering, all the people in the world that are suffering… you see suffering, and there is suffering going on in your immediate vicinity and you can find those places where you can embody God …… you see.>>

 >>

Michael:- its like saying love the world, well……that’s incomprehensible to me, but I can love the guy standing in front of me, who’s, who’s wasting everyone’s time in line, because he is fumbling around or not organised or whatever, and I can say I am not going to become irate about this, I am going to tran you know…father you know, help me to see this another way. Or smile at somebody when you say hello, and you know they are down. Or…..what’s on your plate in front of you.>>

 >>

Raj:- Absolutely, that is correct.>>

 >>

Michael:- but when you see transformation occur, that is, that is uplifting, that is a heart lifting thing to see that…and so that makes me happy! >>

 >>

Raj:- YES>>

 >>

Michael:- So I relish it. >>

 >>

Raj:- YES>>

 >>

Michael:- and so….>>

 >>

Raj:- And it should inspire you to enlarge you circle, so that you are thinking about the starving children in Africa or……>>

 >>

Michael:- you get to have some fun … right?>>

 >>

Long pause.>>

 >>

Michael:- I am not being cocky here or anything…… what I am getting at is, is taking things too seriously gets real depressing ….. you see what I am getting at….. really its difficult to be in that state of mind and…. And impart a hugging loving attitude toward the next person, who who needs a little goose. >>

 >>

Raj:- But this is where its needed, this is where the call is ……….. what can I say. ……… Its time to sober up, its time to abandon the value of giddy … fun….. irrelevant fun ….. its time to find a way to engage with each other in a way that is truly helpful and truly transforms….. and …. In the process of doing that …. Being provided with the experience of…………. Your true function, which will bring you joy not fun……… and joy is far deeper…… and far more infinite than fun.>>

 >>

Small laughter.>>

 >>

Michael:- well I have certainly had enough, I will pass the mic, I’m going to let it settle. >>

 >>

New speaker Ammi, I think.>>

 >>

Ammi:- You said one word that umm, caught my ear, you said when one stands out war… no… if I understood you correctly of course, …. And said … war starts when an individual deviates from the def…. Uhhh… agreed upon definitions……. And you…. Uhh and you went on to say it is…… the seeing it as God would have us see it… see it with God as One, which not necessarily says yes or no.>>

In today’s world………>>

 >>

Raj:- No, no no no ….. lets remain clear as we move along, it  will necessarily mean saying a yes or no, but not as for or against. The yes or a no, when it arises out of your union with God …….>>

 >>

Ammi:- That will be a yes…..>>

 >>

Raj:- it will be a yes or a no, but it will not be a yes, for or against some group, and it will not be a no… for or against a group. In other words, the yes or a no will not be part of a conflict, it will be…. Ahhh ……. A simple acknowledgement of fact, like no 2+2 is not 5, …. Yes 2+2 is 4.>>

 >>

Ammi:- Okay……. But if the question of the individual who is causing the war…. Says I have independence, I will do what I want with my world, and the rest of the world can take a flying leap. >>

So now we have a group, we have an individual, who sees it another way, by defined definition that the world should be at peace, ……… and that’s going to cause a war, or at least we are told by someone else  in the group, that says  I see it differently and therefore I am going to war.>>

 >>

Raj:- Yes>>

 >>

Ammi:- And then you compound that by war is justified when people…are…being … harmed. …..I’m confused.>>

 >>

Raj:- When I am speaking of casting your vote, I am not speaking of asserting a yes or a no from an unjoined place……… the group consensus is a given element of the unjoined place………. Therefore everything that goes on, is a ……ummm………..is a tension that shifts according to the … ummm…. Majority consensus of the group…….. when someone stands up with an original idea, or a new definition that he wants to introduce for agreement , that one is immediately met with resistance, and that’s where wars get started. When an individual who has been part of the group consensus, decides t give his attention to the later once again, to connect with the Father, desiring to be filled with …. Truth… and what love is, so that he might embody it….That one introduces a new idea …. Not from an unjoined place, and that ones introduction of the idea, will not arouse great resistance…… because it will be done with love. And it will be done with language that can be understood by those involved in group consensus ….. so that the shift of perception can occur without arising the ire of the ego’s that had been governing the group consensus….. does that clarify things for you?>>

 >>

Ammi:- ……. No……. ahh could, would it be too outrageous to ask, for us to take some examples …..and say this is an example of and this is  not an example of……… for example, could we take the UN as a group……. Could we take the Iraq situation and identify …..the…. perspective of this that  your describing, and then take the US position and then take the French position, which is all different…….. and where in this ….real ….life circumstance……… are we seeing the examples, that your illustrating and that we are trying to get through…. Maybe that is not a way to approach it but …. (Indistinct)>>

 >>

Raj:- I will tell you that you are not seeing examples of what I am talking about……>>

 >>

Ammi:- Uhhhu…… maybe you could tell us why?, cos that is what we are being asked to do today is to either support our country, and and and government or……..>>

 >>

Raj:- Who is asking that of you? >>

 >>

Ammi:- our government!>>

 >>

Raj:- Ok >>

 >>

Ammi:- Oookayy……>>

 >>

Raj:- I am not….>>

 >>

Ammi:- oh I agree, but but, that seems ….. when you said war, that’s what got me to thinking about it…….


>>

Raj:- I understand>>

 >>

Ammi:- Wrongly …. But thinking>>

 >>

Raj:- I am……. I am……. In this fashion, a very small part of the population of your planet ….. and…. Every single one of you to….. one degree or another … part of a memory, you might say… of a group that lives by mutually agreed upon definitions …… and  one of the mutually agreed upon definitions, that you live by is…. That you are ummm……. You are the result of a physical …ahhh… event… ummm when a sperm and an egg join, and that you are one of the creatures on the planet that is the result of a big bang …….. a purely physical event… and …….. you don’t know…..significantly know that this is a definition and not the truth….. and that you are… in fact… the very presence of God embodied…… and that the Fathers perspective is your natural inheritance… that you could never lose…….. and so what am I doing?…… I am continually nudging and finessing you, into considering things differently and finding ways to do it, that cause you to be curious enough to let something new in, and perhaps become  preoccupied with a whole new range of ……. Ideas……. Thoughts……. Perspectives….. that will…….. pave the way for future growth to happen more spontaneously and easily…… I am in every word I say….. speaking to ego’s in a way that does not reinforce your ego hood, and so I don’t appear to be a threat…. I don’t appear to be against you…. And yet I am absolutely saying NO, I will not join you in reinforcing your ego … same same self ………. So you have an example of what I am talking about….its just that I am speaking to the divine one you are , in such a way that it does not arouse the ire of the ego, that you think you are, and thus defeat my purpose, which is to uncover your… real… purpose to you, so that you might come back into your right mind…. You see I can even say that without getting your ego’s to say…….. WHAT…. I’m not in my right mind? Who the hell are you, you arrogant so and so (soft chuckles hahaah) My reasons, my motive where I am coming from, which is my union with the father, causes me to promote change, without frightening,…… without frightening you……….. and so, when you turn toward the altar and join with the Father you will find yourself able to be in a way … with your brothers and sisters..the umm, the group with the mutually agreed upon definitions … in a way, that will not appear to be threatening and will spawn or inspire, curiosity about things, that it had been defended against in the past …………………… Now……. There are no private thoughts…. Another ….. phrase to think about………… Now…. There are no private thoughts, as a matter of fact, there simply are no private thoughts …… and so as each one of you, turn toward the altar, and listens first,……. so that what comes forth through you, embodies not only the transformational truth…… but the nurturing love that allows for the ideas to be heard without instilling fear……… that is what I am talking about when I am saying …cast your vote…. You see……. I am not casting my vote against you  stupid egos, your ego hood isn’t my concern, doing something about it, is not my concern, there is no such ego hood, so I am not going to attack it. But I am also not going to use my words in a way, that reinforce a sense of ego hood they are well chosen, to cause you to be interested in something different than reinforcing your ego’s and finding some…. To you…. Intelligent and constructive reason for doing it. So that you have more interest in doing that, than reinforcing your ego’s. In the beginning if I spoke about Paul….. he became self conscious,>>

Now I can talk about Paul, and he doesn’t become self conscious……… now I can talk to you about your not being an ego, without engaging the ego you think you are, so you have come a ways…. You see. Now….because there are no private thoughts…..as you join with the Father, and you are willing to do what Paul is doing right now….embodying the Father ……. You will find that not only your immediate acts, in your immediate neighbourhood….will trigger transformation ……. Your…… willingness to make commitment to..not being divided within yourself…..your willingness not too….not claim a right……….to have your own private munificent thoughts….constitutes a joining a union with the Father, that makes what appears to be your specific contribution, …….. your not conflicted within yourself…………………..when you are not conflicted within yourself…it means that you have abandoned your so called right to act independently……. And in the absence of the …. Introduction of the static, of claiming a mind of your own and the rights of your own, you are able to experience yourself as what God is being right where you are. The holy self that you are becomes your experience …… not with halo’s around your head not with choirs of angels singing, but with simple purity, ………of singleness of purpose, ……..purpose set in motion by the Father…… that you are wiling to embody without embellishing…….. and without feeling that you have been deprived of something essential, by adding your own little bias to it….. or even have a totally different contribution to give… you see.>>

 >>

It has power to.....change the dream…… to  improve the dream, so that it becomes the happy dream, because ……of the purity, the singleness ……..…… of what you are willing to allow yourself to be, because you are yielding to God.  >>

 >>

Does that answer your question?>>

 >>

Ammi:- Much clearer….. when I, when I feel… your words about me individually, and my relationship to God, it makes sense….. when I get myself into a group, and we are talking about war…. It just becomes…. You know its not applicable…it is applicable but it has to start from here, and I thought your last suggestion was great….. thank you.>>

 >>

Raj:- Your welcome………Lets go to Robbie first.>>

Top of the page Bottom of the page


Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread

(Delete all cookies set by this site)
Running MegaBBS ASP Forum Software
© 2002-2021 PD9 Software